Animal Documentries

[Ashen]

First one that I highly recommend is 'Elephant in the Living Room'

The Elephant in the Living Room takes viewers on a journey deep inside the controversial American subculture of raising the most dangerous animals in the world, as common household pets. Set against the backdrop of a heated national debate, director Michael Webber chronicles the extraordinary story of two men at the heart of the issue - Tim Harrison, an Ohio police officer whose friend was killed by an exotic pet; and Terry Brumfield, a big-hearted man who struggles to raise two African lions that he loves like his own family. In the first of many unexpected twists, the lives of these two men collide when Terry's male lion escapes its pen and is found attacking cars on a nearby highway. Winner of 5 Best Documentary Awards, the film courageously exposes the shocking reality behind the multi-billion dollar exotic pet industry with stunning photography, inspiring storytelling and unprecedented access into a world rarely seen, right in our own backyard.

Second one hasn't come out yet but I've be obsessed with finding more information about it since I heard about it.. 'Blackfish' has to do with Orca's in Captivity and the effect from that (the Feb death of a trainer) Ton of stuff I didn't know was happening that really hurts cuz from the age of 12-16 all I wanted to was be an Orca trainer, the turned to to zookeeper and finally wildlife rehab but still.. my parents took me to SeaWorld and I can see it all being true.. they do great conservation and rescue but damn they way they have captivity set up must drive the Orca's mad.. and the amount of deaths.. unbelievable. here's the official summery -- Notorious killer whale Tilikum is responsible for the deaths of three individuals, including a top killer whale trainer. Blackfish shows the sometimes devastating consequences of keeping such intelligent and sentient creatures in captivity. Comes out in July.

Also books worth noting..

Wildlife Warrior and Wild Times by Tim Harrison (adventures with exotic pet trade)

Animal Underground by Alan Greene (truth behind zoo trading, roadside zoos and exotic pet trade)

Killer in the Pool by Tim Zimmerman (Orcas in Captivity)

Death at Seaworld by David Kirby


And just in case people think the wrong thing about the Orca stuff, they aren't trying to blame the Orca's.. they're saying the Orca's, even those in SeaWorld who has the 'best' of the options out there, are horribly mistreated, and with how smart they are it drives them psychotic.

[moonbeam]

The Elephant in the Living Room is on Netflix. I'm gonna watch that right now.

EDIT:

All right, I've finished watching it.

Very interesting...

I really feel terribly conflicted about this sort of thing. My first instinct is to dislike private ownership of exotic animals primarily because there are so few people out there who have the sort of money, land, and commitment that is required to give these animals a happy, fulfilled life. But what about people who do have those resources and do have the sort of time and dedication that it takes? I don't automatically assume that life in captivity will necessarily be psychologically damaging or in some form or fashion less fulfilling than life in the wild for any given animal.

But animals DO need space and adequate habitat, and I just can't imagine why anyone would think that a lion can be happy in a small concrete cage. To me, the low level of quality of life in that situation seems like a no-brainer.

I have either known personally or known of several people who have had wolves or wolfdogs as pets. I have mixed feelings about this as well as I think most of us werewolves can see the attraction of sharing our lives with a wolf or part wolf animal, plus most wolfdogs and coydogs I have known really do act just like regular dogs.

Because of all the people that I have known who had wolfdogs, I seriously considered looking into adopting a wolfdog when I first looked into getting a dog. Most of the people who I have known who had wolfdogs treated their pet like any other dog, and the wolfdogs that I have known personally certainly acted like any other dog. I take my dog to the dog park regularly, and he plays with many wolfdogs and coydogs on a regular basis. We have never had any issues or problems of any kind with the wolfdogs and coydogs. They are usually the first to back away when dogs start getting too rough. I talk with their owners, and most of the animals are house pets who are, according to the owners, as well trained as any regular dog. Now, there is one thing to really consider here - other than each dog's wild looks, the only verification I have that these animals are part wolf or part coyote is the word of the owners. And I'm not sure that I 100% trust these owners to know for sure what is in their dog.

Anyways, I opted for a Siberian Husky instead because after researching wolf and wolfdog ownership in my area, I learned that the rabies vaccine is NOT approved for use in wolves and that any animal that is part wolf is considered a wolf by rabies vaccine standards. WHY that is the case, I have no idea, since wolves and dogs are genetically the same species. There is just no possible way that I can comprehend that the rabies vaccine would work for a dog but not for a wolf. Either way, if anything ever happens to your pooch that causes it to be confiscated, both you and he are in a world of trouble due to his "Unvaccinated" status, even if he IS, in fact, vaccinated. I couldn't take that responsibility on myself at this time, so I chose a regular dog.

Now, the people who I have known who owned wolves (three people total) - none of them kept their wolves in the house, and most of them had some kind of kennel for them in the yard. Other than that, they still treated their wolves like they were regular dogs. They'd take them for walks and everything. Except for this one guy who like... I don't even know what his deal was, but he let his animal roam loose on his property. Like he had a ton of acres, and he basically just fed this wolf like it was a stray cat, let it inside sometimes, but mostly it was just a free-roaming animal. She was blind, and she never went far; but God help them if their cattle farming neighbors ever figured out that animal was there.

I once encountered an escaped pet wolf while on break at my job. I was outside in my car with the windows down because it was hot, and I saw a wolf trotting across the parking lot. I was like... um, wtf? Then I noticed she had on a collar, but I couldn't get her to let me examine the collar for owner info. I was like... yeah, well, I'm not going to force this. So when she was done investigating me, she wandered off on her way. Everyone who I told about the incident told me that I was retarded and too stupid to tell the difference between a wolf and a dog, because there was absolutely NO WAY a wolf could have been in our city. This ridicule caused me to not report the wolf's escape to the authorities, because why would they believe me if none of the people who were my co-workers and friends did? If the people I know well think I'm too stupid to tell the difference, some stranger on the phone would be just as likely to think I'm a hysterical ninny. Besides, I was afraid that if she got picked up, they'd just put her down. (And btw, I eventually discovered the owner of the wolf, who happens to be therian - I came across him through Werelist).

Wolves are not dogs, though. I mean... yeah, they are dogs, but they AREN'T DOGS. They need things that dogs don't need, and I don't think most people really get that. But this documentary really didn't even touch on the subject of wolves or wolfdogs as exotics...

Not all exotic animals are the same. There is a world of difference between having a pet wolfdog and having a pet lion. I mean seriously, wtf? If people are so hell bent on owning a lion, why can't there be laws that insist upon trained officials regularly inspecting the enclosures and health of the animals in their care? Some of those people on the documentary mentioned their freedom and how they should be free to own whatever animal they want and how their freedom shouldn't be restricted just because their neighbors are afraid.

Seriously? We do live with other people, and I think that your neighbors have every right to be afraid of a tiger. Dismissing those fears out of hand shows a lack of basic respect to the people around you. Even if a person is 100% sure that their animal could never escape (which no one can be sure of), not all of the neighbors know you well enough personally to be reasonably expected to put their trust in your word. Telling someone who you may not even know very well that they just have to "trust" you to keep your dangerous pet away from the kiddies doesn't cut it.

Also, really? You have a right to own an animal even if you can't afford to keep it in an adequate enclosure? So what about the animal's right to have a decent quality of life?

I really don't see why having regular inspections by trained professionals can't be a satisfactory compromise between the animal owners and the neighbors. If someone comes out and inspects the cages, inspects the animal's health, and inspects the animal's psychological well being several times a year, that should satisfy everyone involved. If the owner really loves their pet, then they will do what is best for the pet - not what is emotionally or fiscally easiest for themselves. REAL love means putting the well fare of the object of that love FIRST, before any inconveniences.

As for venomous snakes - HOLY CRIPES, REALLY? Again, not all exotic animals are equal. There is a very serious problem with keeping exotic venomous snakes that was not even brought up in this documentary, and it is a very important thing that people need to consider. Venomous snakes native to the US rarely cause fatality when they bite because their venom just does not pack the same punch that some of these exotic snakes do. In a lot of cases, anti-venom is not even administered because it is not needed (and they don't want to administer it unless it is absolutely needed because there are risks). But let's say that anti-venom IS needed: All right, well. I'm pretty sure that almost every US hospital is going to have easy access to anti-venom for indigenous species. Coral snake bites can cause a problem because they happen rarely enough that anti-venom may not be on hand, but pit viper anti-venom is easily available throughout the US. If you're keeping some kind of exotic snake from some other country, and it bites you, you're probably going to die simply because the local hospital DOES NOT HAVE ANTI-VENOM FOR IT. I think a lot of people just assume that any hospital anywhere will have a full stock of anti-venom for any type of snake bite imaginable freely available, but that's just not the case. Hospitals DON'T have anti-venom for exotic species that are non-native to our country, and getting anti-venom to you is very likely to take long enough that it's too late. Some of the snakes seen at that reptile show in the documentary are almost 100% fatal without anti-venom. The documentary SHOULD have mentioned that when they were talking about the guy who died from his pet snake's bite, but they didn't. I'm willing to bet that he died because they couldn't get anti-venom fast enough.

I am seriously against the keeping of non-native venomous snakes by private owners. I can't think of a reason that would be good enough to need such an animal. But supposing for a moment that there were a good reason to have a venomous snake in your home - it should be required by law for the owner to have close and easy access to a supply of anti-venom for that snake as well as be trained in administering it and basic emergency training in the event of an escape. Like how to secure an area, get people away from the snake, lists of people to notify, ect. And that training should be re-done on a regular basis, too.

AND ALL OF THAT STUFF above does not even touch on the issue of how escaped exotic pets can impact local ecosystems.

[Ashen]

REXANO - (Responsible Exotic Animal Ownership) is on top of their game, and have no issue with USDA inspections. www.rexano.org/

But this is such a mixed issue, I would love to work with Tim Harrison..

I think a big issue that isn't really brought up in the documentary either is that the USDA needs to have BETTER regulations cuz the sad fact is some of these people are licensed and checked by someone annually but the standards are so low it's ridiculous for a wolf 8*8*6 is min requirement.. so if someone has one in a 8*10 kennel it's 'legal' but thats horrendously small for a wolf (granted thats for one so two would have to be 16*20. Cougar is 8*24.... bobcat 8*8.. you get the gist.

But the other issue that they kinda bring up is that like it or not, these animals are in captivity, and need homes to go to or they'll be put down . Sanctuaries, Wildlife Centers, or Responsible Owners.. they really need better licensing and housing regulations though.. I think that's kinda what Tim Harrison's program - Outreach for Animals is all about too.

[moonbeam]

Yeah, 8 by 8 by 6 really is too small for a wolf. I wouldn't be comfortable leaving a medium to large dog in that size of an enclosure for any extended period. I mean, it seems like an ideal size for the type of kennel that you pop them into when you run off to Walmart, then you let them out when you get home. But as a regular living area? No, it's too small... Though I have difficulty with the idea of "outdoor only" dogs anyways. I know lots of people have outdoor only dogs, and I don't want to criticize them, particularly for people who are allergic. But I know that for me, my dog is my companion. I can't imagine leaving him outside alone if I am inside. He goes where I go. If I had a wolfdog it would be the same way, and if I had a wolf... probably would have to be more realistic about that and have them be outdoors in a LARGE, adequate enclosure. But I would still take them for walks if I could.

So yeah, I'd say that better regulations would be a good idea. And I do think the emphasis really ought to be on making these animals' lives better, rather than on confiscating them from whomever is a bad owner. If the owner is willing to be worked with, then that is a start. As you said, these animals need a place to go TO. It's really a shame that, especially in rural communities, people can't come together and help their neighbors out when it comes to donating space, helping to build enclosures, and just generally being supportive of each other and the animals in their communities. It's a lot harder in the city, where space is much more limited.

The one guy with the lions in the documentary didn't go out looking for lions, they were brought to him and dropped in his lap apparently. I think it is counter-intuitive to suggest a LARGE CARNIVORE as a therapy animal for a disabled person, but it really is too bad he didn't have enough land and/or money to have built a proper enclosure for them there on his land. And, you know, maybe his family or people in the community could have donated time to help in their care and upkeep. But at least they did get to an adequate place in the end, thankfully. I really hope that he's got someone who can drive him to where they are so that he can see them every once in a while.

Anyways, when you've got your wildlife refuge place set up, I may very likely be applying for a job there. I don't have background in that field, but a security guard could be helpful, yes?

[Ashen]

Jun 17, 2013 0:41:46 GMT -6 moonbeam said:

So yeah, I'd say that better regulations would be a good idea. And I do think the emphasis really ought to be on making these animals' lives better, rather than on confiscating them from whomever is a bad owner. If the owner is willing to be worked with, then that is a start. As you said, these animals need a place to go TO. It's really a shame that, especially in rural communities, people can't come together and help their neighbors out when it comes to donating space, helping to build enclosures, and just generally being supportive of each other and the animals in their communities. It's a lot harder in the city, where space is much more limited.

The one guy with the lions in the documentary didn't go out looking for lions, they were brought to him and dropped in his lap apparently. I think it is counter-intuitive to suggest a LARGE CARNIVORE as a therapy animal for a disabled person, but it really is too bad he didn't have enough land and/or money to have built a proper enclosure for them there on his land. And, you know, maybe his family or people in the community could have donated time to help in their care and upkeep. But at least they did get to an adequate place in the end, thankfully. I really hope that he's got someone who can drive him to where they are so that he can see them every once in a while.

Anyways, when you've got your wildlife refuge place set up, I may very likely be applying for a job there. I don't have background in that field, but a security guard could be helpful, yes?

Yea giving any exotic animal to a disabled person isn't a good idea, dog or cat - they can be extremely helpful and therapeutic, but yea.. a lion? @_o .. and I need to watch it again but I'm pretty sure the lions died actually, I know one was electrocuted accidentally.

I love snakes, I have a king snake, but yea I don't get the venomous snake thing.. just why? And those expos are scary.. all those kids who really don't know how to dead with them and just wow.. I actually subscribe to the Animal Finders Guide newsletter... it's ridiculous, and amazing and if I get the right kind of funding hell yes I'll need a security guard.

[moonbeam]

Well yeah, one of the lions was electrocuted - the main male. But then afterwards, he agreed to give up the others; and they found a home for the mother and three cubs. I think it was the combination of surprise babies plus the father's tragic death that finally convinced the owner that he was just not capable of doing right by them on his own. So the four that were left found a happy home, it looked like.

And yeah... good grief. If you need a freaking black mamba to feel like a badass, then there's something wrong with you. Just... good grief.

And yay!