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Post by wolfvanzandt on May 14, 2013 17:49:33 GMT -6
And that's the other thing. Some Were just can't afford to have their image spread around. I have Howlers that don't want their photos broadcasted, which is why I only share "people picture" with attendees of the Howl the pictures came from.
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Post by stormwolf on May 23, 2013 19:28:23 GMT -6
To me, it's also a safety issue. As I've told WVZ before, I believe staying in the shadows is one of the most important things we have right now that keeps us safe. We aren't a target because we don't exist. By and large, most people aren't looking for us because they don't even think we're real. Actually, an added benefit of these therians running around doing these documentaries and calling themselves "werewolves" is that they could help draw attention to themselves and back away from us...But I think I saw someone here posted a link to a youtube video of some preacher saying we're satanic and apparently chose to be werewolves when we devoted ourselves to the Devil? All I can say to that is While on the one hand I almost find that funny, on the other hand I find that really rather disconcerting. I have a family - not just my parents, but a wife and twins. The last thing I want to find is a crowd of buffoons with torches and pitchforks outside my house one night demanding we leave town or they'll lock us in and burn the place down. Personally, I'm not convinced that humanity as a whole has matured past that point. Just look at how they treat one another already.
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Post by Lunar Flare on May 23, 2013 20:59:15 GMT -6
To me, it's also a safety issue. As I've told WVZ before, I believe staying in the shadows is one of the most important things we have right now that keeps us safe. Please don't feel that I am attacking you. I disagree, and I think this exact sentiment is one of the reasons we have such a tiny offline community. Lets take a quick look at the history of homosexuality in the US. In the 40's and 50's the government would actually try to out people by sending them "fake" mail that advertised gay community gatherings. When a gay person would sign up to it, the government would notify their place of employment and their local community/neighborhood. Then these people would be fired and chased out of their community. Pretty much like what you stated your fears are. Then in the 70's, some Drag queens in NYC said enough was enough to cop raids on gay bars, and started the Stone Wall riots. Thus led to gay pride and gay rights movement. Sure after all this time we still don't have equal rights, and are shunned by many, and get picketed by churches and all kinds of BS. But our community has strengthened, because we made so many safe places and community centers, and promoted a message to all of those who struggled with their sexuality that there was nothing wrong with them, and they werent evil/possessed or other wise. Yes the gay community is different in the case of they're a lot bigger in population than us Were's are. But they can be considered the same as us in the sense that its people are being persecuted because they are different from the norm. My point is, I feel the more people know about us, and are educated, the more other Were's will find us. Its sort of like a wolf howling to the wind to find other wolves. And as far as your fears of persecution, I think it really just depends on what part of the nation you live in. If you live in a small town in the south, I could see issues. There are still places in the south where they keep nueses up in trees at schools and churches as a warning to black people not to come there... how pathetic can people be? And when it comes to churches persecuting us, some churches will persecute ANYTHING. Pokemon is the devil, harry potter is the devil, listening to anything with drum beats makes demons come out through the speakers and possess you. I am not saying that every Were should wear the equivalent to rainbow flags on their clothes and cars and shout it to the world that they are Therians or what not. I think if you choose to personally stay in the shadows, then that should be respected. I understand wanting to protect family from persecution. And while I know you don't like the idea of us getting media coverage, I think it's going to keep happening. But at this point, people for the most part are so used to the many odd subcultures out there, they are going to think, ooo strange! And move on to the next reality show or action movie and not give it another thought. We really arn't that strange to bring down so much attention that people would really zero in on us. No offense, but I think thats just paranoia. Like I said, I get small knit uneducated communities in the south and such, but I really dont think its something thats going to start producing "hunters" and lynch mobs. Its like the song that WVZ posted. Change is a comin
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Post by stormwolf on May 23, 2013 21:17:37 GMT -6
lol I'm something of a cynic when it comes to humanity at large. It's a learned behavior.
Not to really hound (ba-dump-bump) degree of openess in terms of other weres finding us, I don't think we need to do too much publicity overall in order for other weres to find us. They seem to, actually. I did. And that was when the Interwebnezz sucked. It might just be that they hear the messages in the howls to the moon where normal people just hear howling, you know?
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Post by wolfvanzandt on May 23, 2013 23:41:06 GMT -6
I'm somewhere between you two. I obviously feel that we should maintain a controlled openness; we should try to control where and how we're presented to the world, because, like Storm, I believe that the only reason we don't have an Inquisition, like they did in Europe during the Renaissance, is that it's actually against most laws today to murder a Werewolf. I would put you up for murder. And Storm's also right that, if a new Were wants to find us, they will. The offline community is far from tiny and I have no doubt that there are more offline Weres in community than there are online Weres (dismissing the fact that I believe that "online community" is an oxymoron.)
But we're not a secret anymore and people like the Therianthropy Research Group could benefit us considerably by emphasizing that we are "regular people" who are beneficial to our communities, and by answering questions that we need firm answers to.
All people who are substantially different from the people around them have to deal with some "persecution". That's the way humans work. The Puritans left England to get away from persecution and when the arrived in America, they immediately started persecuting everyone else. But groups survive and thrive regardless. I think we're hardy enough to be able to deal with the background noise.
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Post by Ashen on May 24, 2013 0:39:41 GMT -6
I'm somewhere between you two. I obviously feel that we should maintain a controlled openness; we should try to control where and how we're presented to the world, because, like Storm, I believe that the only reason we don't have an Inquisition, like they did in Europe during the Renaissance, is that it's actually against most laws today to murder a Werewolf. I would put you up for murder. And Storm's also right that, if a new Were wants to find us, they will. The offline community is far from tiny and I have no doubt that there are more offline Weres in community than there are online Weres (dismissing the fact that I believe that "online community" is an oxymoron.) But we're not a secret anymore and people like the Therianthropy Research Group could benefit us considerably by emphasizing that we are "regular people" who are beneficial to our communities, and by answering questions that we need firm answers to. All people who are substantially different from the people around them have to deal with some "persecution". That's the way humans work. The Puritans left England to get away from persecution and when the arrived in America, they immediately started persecuting everyone else. But groups survive and thrive regardless. I think we're hardy enough to be able to deal with the background noise. Beat me too it, and probably said it better -- I'm pretty much in the same boat.. I think there needs to be controlled 'coming out' to main-streamers but as WVZ said the offline community is not small and while I think we need more good resources for finding each other .. if a were wants to find others there are a lot of ways no matter where you are located..an being more public won't change that.
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Post by moonbeam on May 24, 2013 3:52:02 GMT -6
But I think I saw someone here posted a link to a youtube video of some preacher saying we're satanic and apparently chose to be werewolves when we devoted ourselves to the Devil? All I can say to that is That was me. I didn't actually provide the link, cause I didn't want to encourage traffic to his video. But yeah, that guy was a complete nut and probably a con artist. Even so, there are people on the fringes of Christianity who would believe that sort of thing. Personally, I'm not too worried about being put in physical danger or being persecuted in my community. I have a tendency to be pretty invisible for the most part, so I doubt I would be the first person pointed to if by some weird coincidence some kind of werewolf scare did happen. All of my experiences growing up in which I was dragged in front of church authorities for Deliverance were initiated by my parents. I would have gone completely unregarded by spiritual authorities if my mom had not been so adamant that I had problems. And that is the key issue for me in regard to exposure - my family. My life's mission has been to try to heal my family, and I can't do them much good if I've been cut off from them and viewed as a danger. I know my family well enough to know that if therianthropy were explained to them in an accurate, intelligent manner... what they would take away from it is that I am either demonically influenced or dangerously deluded, or more likely both. They would then regard me as an ongoing spiritual threat to the family and cut me off completely. I've already been kicked out of my home when I was 18 for being a "spiritual danger" to my brothers when they were young. So I don't put it past them to cut me off from all contact completely if something like being a werewolf were to come out. That's something that I just can't let happen, especially since I suspect that one of my nieces might turn out to be a were. That sort of negative outcome feels a great deal more real to me than fear of a modern Inquisition. And there's always the chance that, given just enough exposure that the normal person is familiar with therianthropy, someone in my family might see it and connect it to me anyways.
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Post by Lunar Flare on May 24, 2013 8:57:49 GMT -6
I obviously feel that we should maintain a controlled openness; we should try to control where and how we're presented to the world I whole heartedly agree with that statement. I just think its also a bit out of our hands some times, so we should be proactive in making sure there is good info out there rather than just all bad. I hope I didn't misrepresent my self on that part. In earlier post I said that I thought we should do our own documentary. I think what was put out on logo was somewhat damaging to us. No it wasn't a "look at these evil freaks they need to die" documentary, but neither was it one that represented us correctly. *shudders*. I still think our society is past a neo werewolf inquisition though We are in the age of information. People, like who were in that documentary, are going to be coming forward and misrepresenting us whether we like it or not. So in other words, the change thats coming isn't something that I am saying we need to force. I didn't mean to sound as if we need to start marching up and down the streets for "Were Pride", lol. I was just giving the example of what happened to the gay community and how it got better. While I don't think it's NECESSARY to have media coverage to help other Were's find us, I do think it's very beneficial. Believe it or not, not everyone might have access to the internet. And even if they did, doing a search on "werewolf" or "were-insert animal here" might not come up with our little community here. What they will find is lots of horror fiction from games to movies to books. Sure some of us started out that way, and just kept digging till we found each other, which makes me super happy *HUGS*. What I am getting at though, even though Therianthropy is somewhat of a disliked name here, it still helps the newbies find us easier on the internet. And if more media coverage helps more people put "me feeling like an animal" = Therianthropy, then we will have a larger influx. I also realize this is also the problem that pretty much caused the beginning of the end of werelist being a good place for us werebeasts, as it was flooded with otherkin and posers and other intrusive judgmental nay-sayers ect. But learning new ways to filter these type of people out of our forums should also be a new priority for us, which I am sure it is with this wonderful place. And since one of our main focuses here is the offline community, as WVZ said, the posers arn't going to be an issue with the offline meet ups anyway.
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Post by wolfvanzandt on May 24, 2013 12:38:18 GMT -6
Lemmee make it really clear. "Therianthropy" is the technical name of what we are. "Therianthropy" is the technical name of our state of existence. "Therian" is the term in contest. And some of us don't like what has happened to that particular term since we came up with it as a politically correct term for "Were". Personally, I would be perfectly tolerant of it if it had not turned into a catch-all term for "animal person" which could be anything from Larry Talbot to Timmy Martin.
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Post by Lunar Flare on May 24, 2013 15:16:14 GMT -6
Lemmee make it really clear. "Therianthropy" is the technical name of what we are. "Therianthropy" is the technical name of our state of existence. "Therian" is the term in contest. And some of us don't like what has happened to that particular term since we came up with it as a politically correct term for "Were". Personally, I would be perfectly tolerant of it if it had not turned into a catch-all term for "animal person" which could be anything from Larry Talbot to Timmy Martin. Ah, ok, that does make it a bit more clear to me. At this point I think I am just splitting hairs with this question, but here it is anyways What about the term Therianthrope as in calling yourself such? Sorry, I couldn't resist! I know in the end, lables are labels. I really enjoyed and agreed with Ashen's post about dropping all labels. I am just being a dick But thank you for that clarification, it really does help my understanding of this situation.
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Post by wolfvanzandt on May 24, 2013 22:54:34 GMT -6
Hmmm.....that wasn't really a question. It was more of a sentence fragment. How about rephrasing it.
I also don't like labels. But I'm also quite peeved at using words to perform what actions should be used for. Political correctness just ticks me off. I don't like using words to hurt people, but not using them in a way to get a needed point across simply because you're walking on eggshells is also wrong-headed. And the upshot is that the well intentioned invention of a "nice" label for us has provided a portal for us to be invaded by all kinds of brainlessness. I suspect that that word has done more harm to the Were community than just about anything else that we've done.
We are what we are. If we can't embrace what we are, how in Sam Hill can we expect anyone else to do so?
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twoworlds
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Post by twoworlds on May 25, 2013 10:13:30 GMT -6
All people who are substantially different from the people around them have to deal with some "persecution". That's the way humans work. The Puritans left England to get away from persecution and when the arrived in America, they immediately started persecuting everyone else. But groups survive and thrive regardless. I think we're hardy enough to be able to deal with the background noise. We aren't past time to be persecuted People still vote based on race lines and charismatic leaders and news show hosts can control people into thinking/doing just about anything regardless of what the truth is. Most humans are domesticated sheapal. What has really changed is the distribution of power. If people want to case physical harm to me I have 15 peaces of metal and one sharp peace of metal to keep them from doing so. Most likely what kind of persecution we'd face is things like loosing our jobs or being prosecuted unfairly for anything they can get you for like minor tragic violations that sort of thing. Thankfully we are visually indistinguishable and few people can "see" us or whatever it is that lats small kids and some other weres instantly finger me when they see me. Right now the church I use to go to thinks of me as a weird but good souled and respectable individual that they can trust to mentor there kids. If say weres were common knowlige and people knew they might connect that to me and think of me as a deviant or something. That means people would talk and I may never get a decant job and maybe even have to move. "A person is smart, people are dumb blind panicky animals" Yeah I'm with Storm, I'm a cynic, but hay that may be from people having tried to kill me in high school with a car and the police saying they couldn't do anything about it. (BS that is attempted homicide or reckless endangerment with a deadly weapon if it was "just a joke")
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twoworlds
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Post by twoworlds on May 25, 2013 10:17:20 GMT -6
What protects us is people don't know/ take us seriously. I know that is a twin edged sward but I'd rather have good infor for those who look not just place it out for all to see.
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Post by stormwolf on May 26, 2013 17:38:11 GMT -6
But we're not a secret anymore and people like the Therianthropy Research Group could benefit us considerably by emphasizing that we are "regular people" who are beneficial to our communities, and by answering questions that we need firm answers to. Good Lord...I hadn't heard about them before, but just finished sniffing over their website. They seem nice enough and I get the impression well-intentioned...but as VanZ recently pointed out on another forum, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I don't think we really are _that_ interesting, but then I guess all this is normal for me. I also don't understand why people can't just stay to themselves. By and large, over the years I've noticed we tend to mind our own business and others like to come poking around seeing what we're doing. Yeesh, and I thought felines were supposed to be the most curious critters.
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Post by wolfvanzandt on May 26, 2013 18:31:17 GMT -6
Nope - apes by far.
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